Thursday, November 02, 2006
Tough Razz Decisions
So I've been playing alot of limit H.O.R.S.E. on PokerStars. The "R" round is, off course, RAZZ. Razz is the 7 card stud game where the lowest hand wins. The betting/ante structure is exactly like Stud. There is only one winner and there is no "qualifer" for low (i.e., 8 or better).
Once you start playing this game, you'll start to appreciate the bizzare difference between this game and stud.
In Stud, you attempt to put people on probable hands by guessing what they might hold, based on betting patterns and calling order, and calculating your chances holding a better hand or drawing out.
In Razz, you know with certainty, through 5th street, the best possible hand an opponent can hold. In some senses, the game is easy. When you are ahead - make your opponents pay to chase - bet and raise when you are ahead.
In other senses this game is very complex - knowing when to chase when you are behind is the key. I think it is a mistake, given the antes and "trapped" money to just adopt a simple approach of 'never chase'. Like most forms of poker, you need to assess the probability of catching cards that will win you the pot vs. the existing pot odds of each street of betting.
I'm having some real problems with the following 2 decsions - I would appreciate any advice.
Situation 1: You are the bringin for $.50 with a K up and a A 5 in the hole. The antes amount to $1.60. It is folded around to a 6 who open/completes to $2. Now you are heads up, facing a $1.50 call into a $2.10 and you are well behind. If you call, you are 'betting' that you'll catch good on 4th street and your opponent will catch bad. Because if you catch bad and your opponent catches good you cannot call a bet on 4th street. I tried to do some math and I just can't figure it out. What do I do? I think the decision to fold is much easier when you hold 2 overcards (your hole cards are A 6 with a K showing and your opponent open/completes with a 5 showing).
Situation 2: You have a fantastic starting hand A,2,4 and get the pot heads up against a 10. On 4th street you catch a J, and your opponent catches an 8. There is $4 in the pot and your opponent bets $2. You call. The pot now has $8. On 5th street you catch an 8 and your opponent catches a 7. Your hand reads A,2,4,J,8. Your opponent's hand reads 10,7. He bets $4 into an $8 pot. Chase? No? You are drawing to the near-nut 8. He has a made 10 and a redraw to a 7. You are getting 3:1 ($4 into a $12 pot). I'm thinking this is a good spot to call (based on pot odds) but I'd like some validation. Good cards for you include catching a 3, 5, 6, 7 combined with him catching a 7, 8, 9, 10, J, K, Q. I think there is a 33% combined probability of you catching good and him catching bad and with 3:1 you are just getting the right price. Then, there is also the chance that you both catch good or you both catch bad (i.e, you catch a 6 and he catches a 6).
Maybe the correct decision is.....just don't play Razz.
Once you start playing this game, you'll start to appreciate the bizzare difference between this game and stud.
In Stud, you attempt to put people on probable hands by guessing what they might hold, based on betting patterns and calling order, and calculating your chances holding a better hand or drawing out.
In Razz, you know with certainty, through 5th street, the best possible hand an opponent can hold. In some senses, the game is easy. When you are ahead - make your opponents pay to chase - bet and raise when you are ahead.
In other senses this game is very complex - knowing when to chase when you are behind is the key. I think it is a mistake, given the antes and "trapped" money to just adopt a simple approach of 'never chase'. Like most forms of poker, you need to assess the probability of catching cards that will win you the pot vs. the existing pot odds of each street of betting.
I'm having some real problems with the following 2 decsions - I would appreciate any advice.
Situation 1: You are the bringin for $.50 with a K up and a A 5 in the hole. The antes amount to $1.60. It is folded around to a 6 who open/completes to $2. Now you are heads up, facing a $1.50 call into a $2.10 and you are well behind. If you call, you are 'betting' that you'll catch good on 4th street and your opponent will catch bad. Because if you catch bad and your opponent catches good you cannot call a bet on 4th street. I tried to do some math and I just can't figure it out. What do I do? I think the decision to fold is much easier when you hold 2 overcards (your hole cards are A 6 with a K showing and your opponent open/completes with a 5 showing).
Situation 2: You have a fantastic starting hand A,2,4 and get the pot heads up against a 10. On 4th street you catch a J, and your opponent catches an 8. There is $4 in the pot and your opponent bets $2. You call. The pot now has $8. On 5th street you catch an 8 and your opponent catches a 7. Your hand reads A,2,4,J,8. Your opponent's hand reads 10,7. He bets $4 into an $8 pot. Chase? No? You are drawing to the near-nut 8. He has a made 10 and a redraw to a 7. You are getting 3:1 ($4 into a $12 pot). I'm thinking this is a good spot to call (based on pot odds) but I'd like some validation. Good cards for you include catching a 3, 5, 6, 7 combined with him catching a 7, 8, 9, 10, J, K, Q. I think there is a 33% combined probability of you catching good and him catching bad and with 3:1 you are just getting the right price. Then, there is also the chance that you both catch good or you both catch bad (i.e, you catch a 6 and he catches a 6).
Maybe the correct decision is.....just don't play Razz.
