Friday, May 18, 2007
Break'n em' Down
Ya know how right before a big football game, you open the local paper and you can find a breakdown of the teams – usually written by a real smart sports analyst.
They’ll list several of the important dimensions of the teams and then identify which team has the advantage (i.e., offense, defense, special teams, coaching, intangibles, etc…).
Well, I have a big game coming up next week. My game is a trip to the casino for an afternoon boondoggle next Friday. The two teams involved here are Greektown and Motor City (Ok, so my analogy is starting to unravel a little bit. Just go with it for a while).
Convenience
Motor City offers better parking. Your walk time from the parking lot to the poker room is 5 minutes max. Plus, there is no hassle with pulling a ticket, validation, and checkout. At Greektown, you have to pull a ticket, struggle to find a spot, walk 2 blocks past FishBones, validate, etc.
Advantage – Motor City
Advantage Greektown
Game Choice
Motor City is a little smaller card room. They offer less game variety; however, they do offer the new electronic poker tables where they run some SNGs and lower limit games (if you can stand playing on a computerized poker table – I can’t). Greektown offers a few more limit games at different stakes. I even see them spreading a high limit PLO game and an occasional LO8 game. Both casinos are pathetic in this area though. 
They’ll list several of the important dimensions of the teams and then identify which team has the advantage (i.e., offense, defense, special teams, coaching, intangibles, etc…).
Well, I have a big game coming up next week. My game is a trip to the casino for an afternoon boondoggle next Friday. The two teams involved here are Greektown and Motor City (Ok, so my analogy is starting to unravel a little bit. Just go with it for a while).
Convenience
Motor City offers better parking. Your walk time from the parking lot to the poker room is 5 minutes max. Plus, there is no hassle with pulling a ticket, validation, and checkout. At Greektown, you have to pull a ticket, struggle to find a spot, walk 2 blocks past FishBones, validate, etc.
Advantage – Motor City
Fish Factor
I’ve played at Greektown about a dozen times. I’ve played limit Hold’Em 2 or 3 times and the players are God-awful. I’ve played NL Hold’Em 8 or 9 times and the players, in general, were pretty bad. I’ve only played at Motor City 2 times – both times NL. In each session the play was made up of a mix of solid and weak players – about 50/50. While playing at Motor City, a few guys who seemed to know what they were talking about expressed an opinion that the better, more discriminating poker players choose Motor City and that Greektown had much worse players. Based on this and my own experience–
I’ve played at Greektown about a dozen times. I’ve played limit Hold’Em 2 or 3 times and the players are God-awful. I’ve played NL Hold’Em 8 or 9 times and the players, in general, were pretty bad. I’ve only played at Motor City 2 times – both times NL. In each session the play was made up of a mix of solid and weak players – about 50/50. While playing at Motor City, a few guys who seemed to know what they were talking about expressed an opinion that the better, more discriminating poker players choose Motor City and that Greektown had much worse players. Based on this and my own experience–
Advantage Greektown
Rake Structure
Greektown charges $6 per half hour to play NLHE. Motor City Rakes the pot at 10% up to $6 max. I’ve looked at this a few times. I guess if you are one of those players that plays very few hands and tends to win a few big hands per session, then the rake structure would be an advantage. If you tend to splash around a lot and win lots of small pots, the half hour rate structure is probably an advantage for you. The way I see it, this is a real close call for a solid player. Here’s my logic:
First, players, in general, do not play as tight as they think they do. A tight player, who claims to only play 10% of his hands, plays more than that. A loose player, who claims to play 40% of his hands, plays more than that. This is a sort of self-serving bias.
Second, players, in general, are not as solid as they think they are. A solid player, who claims to have a 65% hands won at show down rate, is hedging a bit. They are not that solid.
I think I play only 10% of my hands, but, I will call a raise when I’m in position with some pretty trashy hands if I think I can stack a player when I connect. So, when its all said and done, I’m playing about 25%-30% (including the blinds). I don’t play too many hands to show down though. I tend to loose a shit load of money calling raises pre-flop and then folding them on the flop; but I tend to win a shit-load of money when my 5-6 suited takes down a pair of kings for an entire stack. So, for me, playing with a rake is a small advantage. Plus, there is just something very unattractive about the time charge. Although it works out to be about the same as a rake, a time charge just seems nasty, dirty, disgusting. I hate it.
If you work the math
Motor City: 40 hands per hour x 10% hands played X 50% hands won = 2 hands won per hour x $6 per pot raked = $12 per hour
Greektown: $6 per half hours x 2 half hours = $12 per hour time charge
Advantage: Motor City – because I despise the time charge (even though there is really no difference).
Greektown charges $6 per half hour to play NLHE. Motor City Rakes the pot at 10% up to $6 max. I’ve looked at this a few times. I guess if you are one of those players that plays very few hands and tends to win a few big hands per session, then the rake structure would be an advantage. If you tend to splash around a lot and win lots of small pots, the half hour rate structure is probably an advantage for you. The way I see it, this is a real close call for a solid player. Here’s my logic:
First, players, in general, do not play as tight as they think they do. A tight player, who claims to only play 10% of his hands, plays more than that. A loose player, who claims to play 40% of his hands, plays more than that. This is a sort of self-serving bias.
Second, players, in general, are not as solid as they think they are. A solid player, who claims to have a 65% hands won at show down rate, is hedging a bit. They are not that solid.
I think I play only 10% of my hands, but, I will call a raise when I’m in position with some pretty trashy hands if I think I can stack a player when I connect. So, when its all said and done, I’m playing about 25%-30% (including the blinds). I don’t play too many hands to show down though. I tend to loose a shit load of money calling raises pre-flop and then folding them on the flop; but I tend to win a shit-load of money when my 5-6 suited takes down a pair of kings for an entire stack. So, for me, playing with a rake is a small advantage. Plus, there is just something very unattractive about the time charge. Although it works out to be about the same as a rake, a time charge just seems nasty, dirty, disgusting. I hate it.
If you work the math
Motor City: 40 hands per hour x 10% hands played X 50% hands won = 2 hands won per hour x $6 per pot raked = $12 per hour
Greektown: $6 per half hours x 2 half hours = $12 per hour time charge
Advantage: Motor City – because I despise the time charge (even though there is really no difference).
Game Choice
Motor City is a little smaller card room. They offer less game variety; however, they do offer the new electronic poker tables where they run some SNGs and lower limit games (if you can stand playing on a computerized poker table – I can’t). Greektown offers a few more limit games at different stakes. I even see them spreading a high limit PLO game and an occasional LO8 game. Both casinos are pathetic in this area though.
Advantage – Neither (both suck).
Miscellaneous Stuff
Miscellaneous Stuff
Motor City is smoke free. This is a huge advantage. Plus, they let you get your own drinks (saving tokes to waitresses). Greektown gives you a ticket for around $7 off a meal on one of several restaurants. This is pretty cool. Plus the atmosphere, restaurants, and location of Greektown provides for more of a “party” feel. Finally, if you’re a sports fan, Greektown has more TVs with more sports choices. It makes it a nice place to play on a weekend. You can still catch your favorite game while folding 90% of your hands and paying $6 per half hour.
Advantage – Greektown.
Comments:
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I like the topic! I've spent a lot of time thinking about the pros and cons of Time Charge vs. Rake. I'm thinking that at the end of the day, there really isn't much of a difference.
However, I did play in a very aggressive game at MotorCity where each pot was a good $100 - $300. It was pretty crazy to see given the small blinds. Anyrate, my point is that I watched the money slowly disappear from the table as the Casino fully raked each pot for $6. With that situation, Greektown would defintly be better to pay every 1/2 hour. However, that rarely happens. Usually, you get a lot of players limping in and 1 healthy raises takes it down pre-flop.
I too like Motorcity's parking, food & beverage station, smoke-free, etc.
I haven't grown the ballz yet to play in the big game ($300 - no max with $5/$10 blinds), but I have seen my buddies win some big bucks! It's kind of disappointing to play at the $1/$2/$2 game for about an hour and win $100 or $200. Then my buddy comes over after the same amount of time up $1600. URG!!
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However, I did play in a very aggressive game at MotorCity where each pot was a good $100 - $300. It was pretty crazy to see given the small blinds. Anyrate, my point is that I watched the money slowly disappear from the table as the Casino fully raked each pot for $6. With that situation, Greektown would defintly be better to pay every 1/2 hour. However, that rarely happens. Usually, you get a lot of players limping in and 1 healthy raises takes it down pre-flop.
I too like Motorcity's parking, food & beverage station, smoke-free, etc.
I haven't grown the ballz yet to play in the big game ($300 - no max with $5/$10 blinds), but I have seen my buddies win some big bucks! It's kind of disappointing to play at the $1/$2/$2 game for about an hour and win $100 or $200. Then my buddy comes over after the same amount of time up $1600. URG!!
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