Tuesday, May 01, 2007
Shooting an Angle
After cashing in 3 out of 3 tournaments in Dec to close out 2006, I’ve gone cold. I’ve gone zero for 4 in 2007. I’m not playing that many tournaments, but I’m starting to get a little anxious for some tournament success.
So I played in a 14 person NLHE tournament on Saturday and was determined to play well. I started off the tournament by running hot. On the first hand of the night, I turned a flush from the BB and won a little money. On the 8th hand, again from the BB, I flopped a flush when I held a 3h-5h. The betting when cold when the 4 heart came on the turn. I was able to check it down on the river and win another small pot. For the early rounds, I stuck to my strategy. I was determined to not play many pots from out of position. It worked. I attacked some small pots from position and I hit a few hands. By the time we had lost 4 players I had doubled my starting chips without ever really risking much.
Key Hand #1
On one key hand, I held Ah-5x. I was middle position and fired out a small raise (3x). The table was playing very tight. It’s folded around to a player in the blind who calls. The flop comes 7h-5x-3h. I struck middle pair and after it was checked to me, I made what I thought might be a bet for value. I get called, so I have no idea where I’m at. I’ve never played with this guy before. I have zero info. The turn is a pretty good card for me – another 5. The board reads 7h-5x-3h-5h. Now I have the nut flush draw to go with trip 5s (and best kicker). After it’s checked to me, I fire out a bet of 2/3rds of the pot. This guy calls. I figure I’m going to need some help on the river. The river is a heart. The board reads 7h-5x-3h-5h-10h. I have the nut flush. Now, this guy snaps to attention and fires out a bet of about 2/3rds the size of the pot. I recheck my hole cards (more to come on this), and confirm that I do hold the Ace of hearts. I’ve got a bad feeling about this. I call and ask if he has a boat. He shows pocket 3’s for the boat. I ship about 30% of my stack across the table.
The interesting part about the hand was that after I finally rechecked my hole cards, I discovered that I didn’t hold Ah-5x. I actually held Ah-4x. I mis-read my hand the whole way. Is it any wonder I can’t win a friggin’ tournament?
Key Hand #2
Next thing I know, I’m down to about 20 big blinds and I’m dealt As7s. I make a standard 3x raise. A guy I’ve never played with before goes all in. I’m getting 2:1 and fold. I’m down to 17 big blinds. Then, I’m dealt Ax-7x again. After one real short stack limped, I raised it 4x. Action is folded to the limper. He calls and shows AQ. I’m down 13 big blinds. 2 hands later I’m dealt KK, I make a standard 3x raise. I get called by the BB. Flop comes Jx-8x-X. It’s checked to me. I bet 2/3rds of the pot. The BB hems/haws for a few seconds and goes all in for about another 1/3rd of the pot. I insta-call. He shows 8-8 for a set. I have 2 outs. My longshot comes through on the turn when the King hits. I was really supposed to be crippled on that hand but as we discussed it, the hand probably would have played out the same way no matter what cards hit the board.
Key Hand #3
Last hand of my night. I’m in the BB with Ax-7x again. The blinds are high. The bubble is about to burst. UTG limps. This was a strange play. Almost every pot at this point was being opened for a raise. This guy, Ray, had recently been down to the felt and was just getting healthy again. Action is folded to the SB who completes. I have exactly 10 big blinds left. I thought there is no way this guy would limp with a big hand in this spot and risk wasting it by giving a free flop to the blinds or loosing value by letting players see a board. So, I make my stand and push all in. He insta-calls and shows KK. It was a trap – he got me good. I’m out in 5th. Oh, well!
Shooting an Angle
An interesting hand came up earlier in the night. Action is folded to me in the small blind. I joked to the big blind, “ya wanna just chop it” with out looking at my cards. Of course, this is a somewhat standard play in cash games at the casino, but is not allowed in tournaments. I was just being sarcastic and attempting to be funny. Ray responds, “OK” and loads his cards up in his hand as if he wants to muck them - you know, the cards are between the index and forefinger with the fingers curled back ready to flick the cards forward. He wasn’t joking. I stopped him and say I just joking and we not really allowed to chop in a tournament. Then, I look at my cards and find an Ax-10x. So, I announce raise. He mucks immediately and gives starts to give me some grief and implies that I may have been shooting an angle to steal his blind.
“Shooting an angle” is a term used to describe a play in poker that is marginally legal/illegal and always unethical. An example of shooting an angle is when a player with a marginal hand notices a dealing error (i.e., an exposed card, a player skipped, etc...), and throws cards into the muck and proclaims "mis-deal" and encourages other players to do the same. Many of these dealing errors are correctable without re-dealing the hand, but an in-experienced dealer may take direction from this player or not know how to respond to a player that is proclaiming a misdeal and has mucked his cards. So, it may work occasionally. Even if it doesn't work, the player who tries this move has nothing to loose since he was planning to muck anyway. This is "shooting an angle."
So I played in a 14 person NLHE tournament on Saturday and was determined to play well. I started off the tournament by running hot. On the first hand of the night, I turned a flush from the BB and won a little money. On the 8th hand, again from the BB, I flopped a flush when I held a 3h-5h. The betting when cold when the 4 heart came on the turn. I was able to check it down on the river and win another small pot. For the early rounds, I stuck to my strategy. I was determined to not play many pots from out of position. It worked. I attacked some small pots from position and I hit a few hands. By the time we had lost 4 players I had doubled my starting chips without ever really risking much.
Key Hand #1
On one key hand, I held Ah-5x. I was middle position and fired out a small raise (3x). The table was playing very tight. It’s folded around to a player in the blind who calls. The flop comes 7h-5x-3h. I struck middle pair and after it was checked to me, I made what I thought might be a bet for value. I get called, so I have no idea where I’m at. I’ve never played with this guy before. I have zero info. The turn is a pretty good card for me – another 5. The board reads 7h-5x-3h-5h. Now I have the nut flush draw to go with trip 5s (and best kicker). After it’s checked to me, I fire out a bet of 2/3rds of the pot. This guy calls. I figure I’m going to need some help on the river. The river is a heart. The board reads 7h-5x-3h-5h-10h. I have the nut flush. Now, this guy snaps to attention and fires out a bet of about 2/3rds the size of the pot. I recheck my hole cards (more to come on this), and confirm that I do hold the Ace of hearts. I’ve got a bad feeling about this. I call and ask if he has a boat. He shows pocket 3’s for the boat. I ship about 30% of my stack across the table.
The interesting part about the hand was that after I finally rechecked my hole cards, I discovered that I didn’t hold Ah-5x. I actually held Ah-4x. I mis-read my hand the whole way. Is it any wonder I can’t win a friggin’ tournament?
Key Hand #2
Next thing I know, I’m down to about 20 big blinds and I’m dealt As7s. I make a standard 3x raise. A guy I’ve never played with before goes all in. I’m getting 2:1 and fold. I’m down to 17 big blinds. Then, I’m dealt Ax-7x again. After one real short stack limped, I raised it 4x. Action is folded to the limper. He calls and shows AQ. I’m down 13 big blinds. 2 hands later I’m dealt KK, I make a standard 3x raise. I get called by the BB. Flop comes Jx-8x-X. It’s checked to me. I bet 2/3rds of the pot. The BB hems/haws for a few seconds and goes all in for about another 1/3rd of the pot. I insta-call. He shows 8-8 for a set. I have 2 outs. My longshot comes through on the turn when the King hits. I was really supposed to be crippled on that hand but as we discussed it, the hand probably would have played out the same way no matter what cards hit the board.
Key Hand #3
Last hand of my night. I’m in the BB with Ax-7x again. The blinds are high. The bubble is about to burst. UTG limps. This was a strange play. Almost every pot at this point was being opened for a raise. This guy, Ray, had recently been down to the felt and was just getting healthy again. Action is folded to the SB who completes. I have exactly 10 big blinds left. I thought there is no way this guy would limp with a big hand in this spot and risk wasting it by giving a free flop to the blinds or loosing value by letting players see a board. So, I make my stand and push all in. He insta-calls and shows KK. It was a trap – he got me good. I’m out in 5th. Oh, well!
Shooting an Angle
An interesting hand came up earlier in the night. Action is folded to me in the small blind. I joked to the big blind, “ya wanna just chop it” with out looking at my cards. Of course, this is a somewhat standard play in cash games at the casino, but is not allowed in tournaments. I was just being sarcastic and attempting to be funny. Ray responds, “OK” and loads his cards up in his hand as if he wants to muck them - you know, the cards are between the index and forefinger with the fingers curled back ready to flick the cards forward. He wasn’t joking. I stopped him and say I just joking and we not really allowed to chop in a tournament. Then, I look at my cards and find an Ax-10x. So, I announce raise. He mucks immediately and gives starts to give me some grief and implies that I may have been shooting an angle to steal his blind.
“Shooting an angle” is a term used to describe a play in poker that is marginally legal/illegal and always unethical. An example of shooting an angle is when a player with a marginal hand notices a dealing error (i.e., an exposed card, a player skipped, etc...), and throws cards into the muck and proclaims "mis-deal" and encourages other players to do the same. Many of these dealing errors are correctable without re-dealing the hand, but an in-experienced dealer may take direction from this player or not know how to respond to a player that is proclaiming a misdeal and has mucked his cards. So, it may work occasionally. Even if it doesn't work, the player who tries this move has nothing to loose since he was planning to muck anyway. This is "shooting an angle."
There are lots of ways to shoot angles. I’ve seen different varieties of this in casinos but it’s really bad practice - especially in a home game – with friends. So I was a little insulted. I apologized. It's all good.
But it got me thinking. There are other “techniques” that are sometimes used to get an advantage that are not really considered unethical or illegal. An example is table talk. Table talk is where you manipulate a player with your talk. There are many more sophisticated ways to get an advantage. For example, let’s say you get your opponent all in creating a $100 pot. You show A-K. Your opponent shows J-J. So you offer, “I’ll split the pot with ya. OK?” Your opponent agrees. You just scored about $7 more than you were due (as you are only 43% to win that hand).
Here’s one of my favorites of these “techniques”. To describe it, I’ll use a situation that I actually witnessed at a home game. The game was 7 handed NLHE cash game with $1/$1 blinds and $100 max buy in. An active player was taking a bit of a beating and talking some smack. He had about $20 left. The other players had between $50 and $200. After 2 limpers, this short stacked player raises to $6 and announces that the rest of his money will go in no matter what hits on the flop. Everyone folds around to him and he takes a nice $4 pot without a confrontation. I thought to myself, “how cool!” This guy just effectively made an all in raise for $20 by only betting $6.
Another example, that I’ve read about but not really seen in live play is the offer of insurance. The example goes like this. You and an opponent get all in. You table an overpair J-J vs. your opponents bottom 2 pair (he has 5-6) on a board of 10-5-6. There’s $100 in the pot. You are a dog, so you offer your opponent some suck out insurance. You offer to concede the pot to him (after all, he’s the favorite) as long as he pays you $30. That way, as you sell it, he doesn’t have to worry about you sucking out on him by spiking a 10, J, or pairing the turn card (5 outs twice plus 3 outs once). If he’s not that sharp, he just may take you up on your suck-out insurance and you’ll make a tidy $5 profit (you were only 25% to win that $100 pot).
Call for Papers
But it got me thinking. There are other “techniques” that are sometimes used to get an advantage that are not really considered unethical or illegal. An example is table talk. Table talk is where you manipulate a player with your talk. There are many more sophisticated ways to get an advantage. For example, let’s say you get your opponent all in creating a $100 pot. You show A-K. Your opponent shows J-J. So you offer, “I’ll split the pot with ya. OK?” Your opponent agrees. You just scored about $7 more than you were due (as you are only 43% to win that hand).
Here’s one of my favorites of these “techniques”. To describe it, I’ll use a situation that I actually witnessed at a home game. The game was 7 handed NLHE cash game with $1/$1 blinds and $100 max buy in. An active player was taking a bit of a beating and talking some smack. He had about $20 left. The other players had between $50 and $200. After 2 limpers, this short stacked player raises to $6 and announces that the rest of his money will go in no matter what hits on the flop. Everyone folds around to him and he takes a nice $4 pot without a confrontation. I thought to myself, “how cool!” This guy just effectively made an all in raise for $20 by only betting $6.
Another example, that I’ve read about but not really seen in live play is the offer of insurance. The example goes like this. You and an opponent get all in. You table an overpair J-J vs. your opponents bottom 2 pair (he has 5-6) on a board of 10-5-6. There’s $100 in the pot. You are a dog, so you offer your opponent some suck out insurance. You offer to concede the pot to him (after all, he’s the favorite) as long as he pays you $30. That way, as you sell it, he doesn’t have to worry about you sucking out on him by spiking a 10, J, or pairing the turn card (5 outs twice plus 3 outs once). If he’s not that sharp, he just may take you up on your suck-out insurance and you’ll make a tidy $5 profit (you were only 25% to win that $100 pot).
Call for Papers
So I’d like to hear from some of the readers of this blog. Give me one your favorite “manipulation” techniques that you’ve used or seen at the poker table. I’m not looking for illegal or unethical stuff here. Just the clever stuff please.
Comments:
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Actually I think hand 1 was played "fine" whether you have A4 or A5.
Also, try asking if he has a boat before you call. Some people will tell you to be nice.
Does that count as an angle shoot? Also if you waste five minutes of the entire tables lives by "thinking" then you are more likely to get them to say "yes i have a boat just hurry up and fold already".
Also, try asking if he has a boat before you call. Some people will tell you to be nice.
Does that count as an angle shoot? Also if you waste five minutes of the entire tables lives by "thinking" then you are more likely to get them to say "yes i have a boat just hurry up and fold already".
Last night I played at Greektown, and since it had been awhile (and I had some beers), I felt only comfortable enough playing one hand an hour (AA,KK,QQ -- so I was there a little over 2 hours). Even though my reputation (for anyone paying attention), was extremely tight, usually two or three people still called my 10X raise. After the 2nd hand, someone said if they had stayed in they would have flopped a straight. Then after the third hand I won with QQ, one guy seemed fairly irritated and emphatically said he almost called and would have flopped a straight. I started to get a bad feeling, like eventually -- (after winning all the premium hands I played for fairly large pots), that someone was going to call me down and bust me pretty good. This would have been a good time to loosen up the play, but I felt slightly affected and opted to leave, lol.
So maybe the moral of this story is if you want to try to loosen up a tight player (or get him to leave) is to keep telling him how you were so close to busting him. (which seems to be counterintuitive to say anything at all, so maybe they did me a favor).
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So maybe the moral of this story is if you want to try to loosen up a tight player (or get him to leave) is to keep telling him how you were so close to busting him. (which seems to be counterintuitive to say anything at all, so maybe they did me a favor).
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