Monday, June 04, 2007
It's a Test
So, with no home games scheduled this past weekend, I headed to Motor City with a friend on Friday night to play some poker.
It’s a little tiring working all day downtown, fighting traffic for an hour and a half to make it back home, then turning around and heading back downtown to play poker 3 hours later. But, with a bum hamstring, I was staring straight down the barrel of having a “do nothing” weekend, so I decided to make the effort to get out on Friday night. Plus, I was envisioning the wads of cash I’d be taking home with me, so I mustered up the motivation.
Anyway, the session was pretty uneventful. I was up. I was down. Then right before the session ended, I won a few hands and ended up $32 for the night. On the last hand of the night, I was UTG with J5o. I had been playing pretty solid poker all night with pretty much the same cast of characters. The table started off really loose and wild and then evolved to a really passive table. Anyway, I raised it to $10. I wanted a little action on my last hand (no one knew it was my last hand of the night). I got 4 callers (2 LP players and the blinds). $40 in the pot. The flop is rags 6-9-9. The blinds check. I bet $30. Fold, fold, fold, fold. I win $40, show everyone a bluff, get a good laugh out of it, wish everyone a good night and take my tiny profit home with me. In looking back, I guess I could have made that same play on the first hand of the night and saved myself 5 hours of grind. Oh well.
Anyway, I need help with 2 hands that came up. This is a quiz. If you answer correctly, you might win a prize – or not.
On one hand, my good Friend lost his stack. On the other hand, I got lucky and won a huge pot.
Hand #1 – I get lucky
I’m in the big blind with 9-2o. An EP player raises to $10. Seven players call. Do I
a) Fold – c’mon, are you serious? 9-2o is such a ragged hand. Plus, I’ll be out of position. Fold this trash. $10 is real money. Don’t play this crap, ever!
b) Call – getting 7:1 odds. This is an easy call. Everyone is probably playing big cards or small pairs. Plus, being last to act, there is no chance that you'll be re-raised. C'mon, throw your chips out there and outplay these donkeys after the flop.
c) Raise – the original raiser is the only one who has shown strength. The callers and overcallers are weak. Even the original raiser may be making a raise with weak holdings. Take down this nice $70 pot right now with a $100 bet.
I really need help with this one. I think this may be a huge leak in my game. I call with trash hand because I’m “getting a good price”. Help me out here. What’s the correct play?
Anyway, I called. Flop is 9-7-6. Original raiser continues with another $10 bet (weak!). 3 of us call. Pot has $110. Turn is a Jack – board reads 9-7-6-J. It’s checked around. Whew! I would have folded here to any reasonable bet. The river is a deuce. Original raiser bets $40. Next 2 players fold. I call and win a $190 pot with the lowly 9-2 for top and bottom pair.
Hand #2 – BS Gets Stacked.
To set this up, I need to describe the table. It’s 9 handed. Seat 1 has $500. He’s a bad but experienced player – a real donkey. He thinks that any Ace is playable and worth calling down to the river when he flops an Ace. He’s taken some money off of me, so he’s on my target list. Seat #2 has about $50. He’s mediocre, but you can tell he’s looking to get his money all in at any moment. This guy is just looking for a spot to gamble.
My friend, BS, is seat #8 and first to act he has about $425.
BS makes it $10 and is called by seat #1 (Donkey) and seat #2 (Gambler). The blinds fold. We’re 3 handed to the flop. The pot has $34. The flop comes Ax-Qc-3c. BS checks (he’s holding Ac-10c). He’s hoping to check raise with Top pair and nut flush draw. Donkey opens for $10. Gambler min raises to $20.
Action on BS. He can now spring his check raise if he wants.
Should he.
A) smooth call – in this game, bluffing has little value. You can’t bluff an idiot. You must realize that you are probably behind at this point with top pair and a middle kicker (10) to one of these players. Why not wait until you have the nuts to punish these donkeys? Plus the pot is building up nicely without your check raise.
B) Check raise to $80 – you could very well be ahead here with top pair and pretty good kicker, so if you are called by Gambler (who would be all in), you might be ahead anyway. Or, you might need to hit a club – but you’re only 2:1 against hitting, so your chances are pretty good. You might just take down a nice pot here without a contest. Raising gives you 2 ways to win. Fire out a raise that will give you a good chance to win, but doesn’t commit your entire $425 stack just yet.
C) Check raise all in $425 – you are going all the way with this hand anyway so just get your money in now. Plus, you put a lot of pressure on the donkey with $500 behind. He may even lay down a hand like A-J – who knows?
D) Fold – why get involved here in a huge pot. You’re out of position. One of these donkeys will get lucky on you anyway. Plus, you just never able to hit a draw when you need it.
D is just out of the question. If you chose D, you will be given “platinum elite” status at all future Husker House Poker events.
BS chose option B. The after he check raised to $80, Donkey goes all in for $500. Gambler calls. Action back to BS
Should BS
A) Fold - BS would need to call off his last $415 to compete for a pot of $580. This is a price of 1.4:1. At this point he must know that he is at least up against AK (for top pair top kicker) or AQ (for top 2). He might even be up against a set. This means that even if he hits a 9 outer for the nut flush on the turn, his opponents can boat up on the river with 4 or 6 outs. This makes him about a 2:1 dog to win. He’s not getting the right price.
B) Call – this is the hand you’ve been patiently waiting for 5 hours for. It’s time to make a gigantic score. Stick it in there. Who knows, you may be in the lead right now, if not, a club is sure to come. Right?
As it turns out, Donkey held 3-3 for bottom set (this was the hand he was waiting for all night). Gambler held AQ for top 2. The flush never came. I know, sad ending to this story.
It’s a little tiring working all day downtown, fighting traffic for an hour and a half to make it back home, then turning around and heading back downtown to play poker 3 hours later. But, with a bum hamstring, I was staring straight down the barrel of having a “do nothing” weekend, so I decided to make the effort to get out on Friday night. Plus, I was envisioning the wads of cash I’d be taking home with me, so I mustered up the motivation.
Anyway, the session was pretty uneventful. I was up. I was down. Then right before the session ended, I won a few hands and ended up $32 for the night. On the last hand of the night, I was UTG with J5o. I had been playing pretty solid poker all night with pretty much the same cast of characters. The table started off really loose and wild and then evolved to a really passive table. Anyway, I raised it to $10. I wanted a little action on my last hand (no one knew it was my last hand of the night). I got 4 callers (2 LP players and the blinds). $40 in the pot. The flop is rags 6-9-9. The blinds check. I bet $30. Fold, fold, fold, fold. I win $40, show everyone a bluff, get a good laugh out of it, wish everyone a good night and take my tiny profit home with me. In looking back, I guess I could have made that same play on the first hand of the night and saved myself 5 hours of grind. Oh well.
Anyway, I need help with 2 hands that came up. This is a quiz. If you answer correctly, you might win a prize – or not.
On one hand, my good Friend lost his stack. On the other hand, I got lucky and won a huge pot.
Hand #1 – I get lucky
I’m in the big blind with 9-2o. An EP player raises to $10. Seven players call. Do I
a) Fold – c’mon, are you serious? 9-2o is such a ragged hand. Plus, I’ll be out of position. Fold this trash. $10 is real money. Don’t play this crap, ever!
b) Call – getting 7:1 odds. This is an easy call. Everyone is probably playing big cards or small pairs. Plus, being last to act, there is no chance that you'll be re-raised. C'mon, throw your chips out there and outplay these donkeys after the flop.
c) Raise – the original raiser is the only one who has shown strength. The callers and overcallers are weak. Even the original raiser may be making a raise with weak holdings. Take down this nice $70 pot right now with a $100 bet.
I really need help with this one. I think this may be a huge leak in my game. I call with trash hand because I’m “getting a good price”. Help me out here. What’s the correct play?
Anyway, I called. Flop is 9-7-6. Original raiser continues with another $10 bet (weak!). 3 of us call. Pot has $110. Turn is a Jack – board reads 9-7-6-J. It’s checked around. Whew! I would have folded here to any reasonable bet. The river is a deuce. Original raiser bets $40. Next 2 players fold. I call and win a $190 pot with the lowly 9-2 for top and bottom pair.
Hand #2 – BS Gets Stacked.
To set this up, I need to describe the table. It’s 9 handed. Seat 1 has $500. He’s a bad but experienced player – a real donkey. He thinks that any Ace is playable and worth calling down to the river when he flops an Ace. He’s taken some money off of me, so he’s on my target list. Seat #2 has about $50. He’s mediocre, but you can tell he’s looking to get his money all in at any moment. This guy is just looking for a spot to gamble.
My friend, BS, is seat #8 and first to act he has about $425.
BS makes it $10 and is called by seat #1 (Donkey) and seat #2 (Gambler). The blinds fold. We’re 3 handed to the flop. The pot has $34. The flop comes Ax-Qc-3c. BS checks (he’s holding Ac-10c). He’s hoping to check raise with Top pair and nut flush draw. Donkey opens for $10. Gambler min raises to $20.
Action on BS. He can now spring his check raise if he wants.
Should he.
A) smooth call – in this game, bluffing has little value. You can’t bluff an idiot. You must realize that you are probably behind at this point with top pair and a middle kicker (10) to one of these players. Why not wait until you have the nuts to punish these donkeys? Plus the pot is building up nicely without your check raise.
B) Check raise to $80 – you could very well be ahead here with top pair and pretty good kicker, so if you are called by Gambler (who would be all in), you might be ahead anyway. Or, you might need to hit a club – but you’re only 2:1 against hitting, so your chances are pretty good. You might just take down a nice pot here without a contest. Raising gives you 2 ways to win. Fire out a raise that will give you a good chance to win, but doesn’t commit your entire $425 stack just yet.
C) Check raise all in $425 – you are going all the way with this hand anyway so just get your money in now. Plus, you put a lot of pressure on the donkey with $500 behind. He may even lay down a hand like A-J – who knows?
D) Fold – why get involved here in a huge pot. You’re out of position. One of these donkeys will get lucky on you anyway. Plus, you just never able to hit a draw when you need it.
D is just out of the question. If you chose D, you will be given “platinum elite” status at all future Husker House Poker events.
BS chose option B. The after he check raised to $80, Donkey goes all in for $500. Gambler calls. Action back to BS
Should BS
A) Fold - BS would need to call off his last $415 to compete for a pot of $580. This is a price of 1.4:1. At this point he must know that he is at least up against AK (for top pair top kicker) or AQ (for top 2). He might even be up against a set. This means that even if he hits a 9 outer for the nut flush on the turn, his opponents can boat up on the river with 4 or 6 outs. This makes him about a 2:1 dog to win. He’s not getting the right price.
B) Call – this is the hand you’ve been patiently waiting for 5 hours for. It’s time to make a gigantic score. Stick it in there. Who knows, you may be in the lead right now, if not, a club is sure to come. Right?
As it turns out, Donkey held 3-3 for bottom set (this was the hand he was waiting for all night). Gambler held AQ for top 2. The flush never came. I know, sad ending to this story.
Comments:
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Hand #1 - Since it's only an $8 raise and you have 7 callers...I would most likely call as well. Plus when he bets $10 and you have top pair......you gotta call again. Now, if he would have bet $30 - $60......I would most likely fold.
Hand #2 - I personnally think your buddy had a very easy fold. I would have put the small stack on a set or AK. I probably would have put the gambler on AJ since he moved all-in. Still......easy fold, save your money for a better spot.
Hand #2 - I personnally think your buddy had a very easy fold. I would have put the small stack on a set or AK. I probably would have put the gambler on AJ since he moved all-in. Still......easy fold, save your money for a better spot.
# posted by 
: 5:23 AM
: 5:23 AM
jon, i think you played hand 1 good. i would've played it the same.
hand 2, i probably wouldn't have raised utg with Ac10c. then when the short stack gay raises the flop instead of just pushing his last few chips in, it looks very suspicious. like he's praying for brent to overcall.
i would've just smooth called and hoped that donkey wouldn't raise it up, but with bottom set and the flush draw there, he probably would have. if he raises it a little, you can peel the turn. if he makes it alot, fold.
since donkey had a lot of money in front of him, i would've been very cautious.
hand 2, i probably wouldn't have raised utg with Ac10c. then when the short stack gay raises the flop instead of just pushing his last few chips in, it looks very suspicious. like he's praying for brent to overcall.
i would've just smooth called and hoped that donkey wouldn't raise it up, but with bottom set and the flush draw there, he probably would have. if he raises it a little, you can peel the turn. if he makes it alot, fold.
since donkey had a lot of money in front of him, i would've been very cautious.
# posted by : 11:29 AM
: 11:29 AM
a few hours until I fly to Vegas! Hurray!
Well, if I have 9-2 I will sometimes call for pot odds a small percentage of the time. mostly I'll fold it, as I don't like to put all of my energy into trying to get lucky and outplaying 6 or 7 other players. I feel if you keep limping to raises too many times then you'll need bigger hands to make up for that loss, and I don't like that pressure. I'll limp more if I feel nobody is really paying too much attention. So once in awhile is fine.
IMO, playing cash is leisure for me, I'm not trying to win a tourney and the blinds never go up. So I can take my time and not feel like I have to win every single hand I'm in. Sometimes I'll let a hand go to try to set up a future hand later, or even make a bluff to show the table to set up for a better hand later.
You seem to have a good feel for the cash games. I feel a lot of other players play too fast and not want to let the hand develop.
Viva Las Vegas!!!
Well, if I have 9-2 I will sometimes call for pot odds a small percentage of the time. mostly I'll fold it, as I don't like to put all of my energy into trying to get lucky and outplaying 6 or 7 other players. I feel if you keep limping to raises too many times then you'll need bigger hands to make up for that loss, and I don't like that pressure. I'll limp more if I feel nobody is really paying too much attention. So once in awhile is fine.
IMO, playing cash is leisure for me, I'm not trying to win a tourney and the blinds never go up. So I can take my time and not feel like I have to win every single hand I'm in. Sometimes I'll let a hand go to try to set up a future hand later, or even make a bluff to show the table to set up for a better hand later.
You seem to have a good feel for the cash games. I feel a lot of other players play too fast and not want to let the hand develop.
Viva Las Vegas!!!
I saw john juanda play a (high stakes) hand where he flopped top pair and flush draw against --- Phil Laak? (I think it was Phil Laak). John folded (on the turn?) -- anyway, he wasn't given the odds to continue with the hand. (Laak had two pair).
Even if they are donkeys, I feel that they aren't as good disguising their good hands. With a bet and min-raise I'd have to be suspicious I'm at least facing two-pair. I would just call on the flop and if the turn does not give me the flush i am done with the hand. I definitely would not check-raise with two people showing some strength (unless I am drinking then it's an entirely different story).
I may even put one of those guys on a lower flush draw and therefore figure two of my clubs are gone. I would be in favor of 25% folding to 75% calling in this situation.
Even if they are donkeys, I feel that they aren't as good disguising their good hands. With a bet and min-raise I'd have to be suspicious I'm at least facing two-pair. I would just call on the flop and if the turn does not give me the flush i am done with the hand. I definitely would not check-raise with two people showing some strength (unless I am drinking then it's an entirely different story).
I may even put one of those guys on a lower flush draw and therefore figure two of my clubs are gone. I would be in favor of 25% folding to 75% calling in this situation.
fold 92o preflop. this is really a question? I play a ton of 'awful' hands but 92o is bottom of the barrel and you are out of position in a zillion way pot
as played - bet $40/fold to a push on the flop. I mean if you are going to play 92o, if you flop top pair you should probably do something other then check/call. Any 5 6 7 8 T J Q K A is bad for your hand!
hand two I'd lead for $30 and 3bet all in myself. meh i guess getting in a double stack with "just" a flushdraw isn't so great, bet/calling the flop sucks, and check calling is pretty absurd.
as played - bet $40/fold to a push on the flop. I mean if you are going to play 92o, if you flop top pair you should probably do something other then check/call. Any 5 6 7 8 T J Q K A is bad for your hand!
hand two I'd lead for $30 and 3bet all in myself. meh i guess getting in a double stack with "just" a flushdraw isn't so great, bet/calling the flop sucks, and check calling is pretty absurd.
# posted by : 10:32 AM
: 10:32 AM
I would limp with the 92 hand, but bet it if I hit top pair. If someone shows strength, I would fold.
The second hand, I'm not sure why you would want to check raise with that hand. I would bet the flop and if someone raised, depending on how much, I would call and check/fold the turn unless I hit.
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The second hand, I'm not sure why you would want to check raise with that hand. I would bet the flop and if someone raised, depending on how much, I would call and check/fold the turn unless I hit.
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